Drawing attention to a specific user and their detrimental behaviour

[Schachus]

I'm sorry to resurrect an old thread, but as a professional web developer, I have some thoughts.

What I've gathered from catching up on this thread is that LMD began as a way for friends to share puzzles with each other, and then CTC caused an unexpected surge in traffic and sudoku content because they were saying in their videos that this was where they were getting their puzzles from. Many sudoku setters then began posting their puzzles here hoping CTC would notice them (including me). As a result of this, high quality sudoku puzzles surged, other puzzles almost entirely stopped, and a lot of the original users either left the website or significantly reduced their activity on it. I also gather there is a lot of resentment among some of the earlier users for this happening.

I think "This isn't what we created it for, and we don't like it, but we put up with it" is not the right way to view this. Regardless of how it happened, LMD has become one of the premier places on the internet for high quality sudoku. It's lightning in a bottle. For better or for worse, the website has changed into what it is now, and it's never going back to what it was without making it private.

So why not fully embrace it? Since most users now speak English, have all pages available in both languages. In addition to putting news on the frontpage, have a "Sudoku of the Week" that highlights one/some of the best puzzles posted in the last seven days. When someone new comes along and their first few puzzles are excellent, give them a spot on the homepage as a "rising star" to encourage them to keep going, and to encourage people to solve their puzzles.

Since there are many more users now, you could put the top 10 setters and solvers of the month and all-time on the homepage, to incentivize people to make higher quality puzzles and to solve more puzzles, so they can achieve accolades (but have the top 10 setters also relate to puzzle beauty, not just number of puzzles - Will Power posts almost every other day, but Phistomefel has higher rated puzzles, and should be higher in the list).

Then you could go further by offering "premium puzzles" and other additional features to paying members, to help support hosting costs and future development. CTC provides a sudoku hunt each month to their Patreon members - there's no reason you can't do the same here for paying members. Build up LMD as the place to go for high quality sudoku, and then incentivize people to join and become paying members. And for the original users, you can have a special private area where the spirit of the original website remains.

When things change, you can either change with them and grow, or resist the change and shrink. Regardless of how it started, this website's purpose has changed over the last few years, and so far you've been dragged along with it. There is so much potential here for the site to be much more than it currently is. All you have to do is decide to lead those changes instead of being led by them.

And yes, I do recognize that some of what I've suggested above would actually reward the person this thread is about for their behaviour. However, regardless of how much I disagree with that behaviour, since the LMD staff don't view it as a problem, I see no reason to have it influence my ideas.

I disagree both with the premise and the conclusion. You talk about the purpose of the website. This website is the online representation of the German puzzle association. As such is and always has been its purpose: That includes to show news about puzzling in Germany, host a forum for German puzzlers and other interested people, host competitions, in particular serve as host for the qualifications for German Sudoku and puzzle championships and inform interested people about Logic puzzles, among other things. And one part of this is the puzzle portal, that (in my understanding, which does not mean much), aims to exchange puzzles (with Sudokus are a part of) between enthusiasts and show new users the variety of puzzles.

But a change in the puzzle portal indicates by no means that the purpose of the website would have to change (it shouldn't, it still very much is the homepage of the German puzzle association and there should absolutely be such a homepage), or even already would have changed.

[DiMono]

I disagree both with the premise and the conclusion. You talk about the purpose of the website. This website is the online representation of the German puzzle association. As such is and always has been its purpose: That includes to show news about puzzling in Germany, host a forum for German puzzlers and other interested people, host competitions, in particular serve as host for the qualifications for German Sudoku and puzzle championships and inform interested people about Logic puzzles, among other things. And one part of this is the puzzle portal, that (in my understnading, which does not mean much), aims to excanges puzzles (with Sudokus are a part of) between enthusiasts and show new users the variety of puzzles.

But a change in the puzzle portal indicates by no means that the purpose of the website would have to change (it shouldn't, it still very much is the homepage of the German puzzle association and there should absolutely be such a homepage), or even already would have changed.

According to Dandelo, in the last post of page 4, you are wrong.

The site was never intended for publishing puzzles in the web. There was a group of puzzlers, knowing each other IRL, who created this site to challenge each other with puzzles.

Emphasis is mine. This website began as a friend group. Now it is a global community. I'm not saying it has to do anything - I'm saying it's already undergone a lot of change. And I'm suggesting that the community could grow further, in a controlled way, by fully embracing that change and deliberately directing it, thereby making LMD the worldwide home of sudoku. There's nothing anywhere that says it can't be both the home of the German Puzzle Association and the home of sudoku on the web.

Is that the correct decision? I don't know. And I'm certainly not going to try to convince the people who own and operate this website that they must do anything. I'm saying it's an option, and that I think it's worth their consideration. Whether they agree is up to them.

[ibag]

I always find the ignorance remarkable, which lies alone in calling our puzzle portal LMD (=Logic Masters Germany?). Are people not aware that Logic Masters is an association with many fields of activity, of which the puzzle portal is only one? How can people get the idea that we should put the puzzle portal in the center of our activities and possibly invest work to make it commercial?

I believe that much of the displeasure with the "Sudoku invasion" is rooted in this ignorance. Many of the new users are using our platform without being in any way interested in our club or at least other users of the puzzle portal. For many, it seems to be just a convenient way to get their puzzles out into the world. Maybe these people should just get their act together and start a platform for their own purposes. Anyway, DiMono's suggestions all seem to boil down to giving these people even more freebies.

In contrast, the expansion of the puzzle portal has also meant that we've gained some really great authors who, on the other hand, also look around the portal and appreciate the treasures hidden here. I don't think these authors have any interest in any silly rankings.

[DiMono]

LMD = Logic Masters Deutschland. We actually had an in depth conversation on the CTC Discord server about whether to use LMG or LMD, and the majority consensus was that it would be respectful to the fact it's a German website to use the German word. Plus the url is logic-masters.de = Logic Masters De = LMD.

And again, I'm not saying you should, I'm saying you can, and that I think it would be effective. It's not about "giving people freebies," it's about seeing how the traffic to the website has changed, and adapting to it, rather than simply tolerating it.

[Dandelo]

It's nice to say LMD instead of LMG, we call it LM. But why can't you understand that LM(D) is not the same as logic-masters.de?

The Rätselportal is only one element of the website logic-masters.de and the website is only one element of LM. I believe that for many members (who pay for the membership and therefore also for the website) the Rätselportal is of minor interest or even no interest.

Yes, we could do a lot of things with the Rätselportal, but we don't want. As ibag has said and I have also said it in this discussion:

You are free to create your own website
with all features you can think of.

But the features of the actual Rätselportal are exactly what we want. And for many years it worked fine. It was open for anyone and attracted several users and authors from all over the world. Now a large group has  flooded the Rätselportal and has changed a lot. But why should we change the Rätselportal for them?

And again: The users who use it for free tell the users who pay for it what to do. That's ridiculous.

[Hausigel]

@DiMono: Apart from the point Gabi has made - and which you have apparently missed - I have two other issues with your suggestions.

First, you keep using the phrase "high quality sudoku". I disagree with your assessment. As mentioned before, the current rating system favors the setters (because Portal users who do not like the puzzles do not solve them and therefore do not get to rate them). Also, many of the new solvers use only the top part of the rating spectrum, and - in particular very recently - setters reject all bad ratings, up to the point that they request actions against them. Just because these users keep telling themselves how great their creations are does not make it so.

Second, this is not a commercial website. We had hoped that visitors who took notice of LMD (via the Portal or otherwise) would develop an interest in other puzzle styles and, as a result, perhaps become members in our association. Instead you are suggesting that we give in to their interests and make money with it. Do you really not see what is wrong with this picture?

LMD has limited resources (in particular manpower), and you must realize that we invest our energy into changes that are in the interest of our members. What you are suggesting - which is basically all about enhancing the competitive elements of the Portal - may be in the interest of outside visitors, but not in ours. On the contrary, it is regrettable that Portal setters have become more and more obsessed and hostile about a few percentage points and their 15 minutes of glory. I see no reason to further encourage them in that regard.

[Dandelo]

Maybe you should know how the rating system worked in the times before the Deluge of sudokus.

We had about 1 puzzle per day, maybe 2. Almost all users looked at all puzzles and tried to solve. It was not competitive (besides 1 user who tried to keep 100% of solved puzzles ). 90% was a good rating, 80% was not bad. About 3 puzzles had a 100% rating and were fantastic.
The rating system was good to have a ranking and give a feedback to the authors. But since most users tried all of the puzzles anyway it had no effect on the number of solves. The rating system is made for this.

Now the rating system produces ratings from 95-100% because of the misusing new users and because of the solvers choosing only their favourite types and highest rated puzzles. The ratings don't distinguish anymore. But this would happen with other rating systems too until users start to use the full range of ratings.

[PotatoHead21]

I feel like LMD does not have enough user interactive features like most social media platforms. There should be the option to block/report a user or puzzle if they violate the terms of service.

[glum_hippo]

This entire thread seems to follow the same pattern.

Someone points out a problem. Someone else responds that the site was never meant to address that problem. How about if people just stop trying to make Logic Masters Germany into something it is not? LMD was made for a handful of friends to share their puzzles with one another. That handful of friends has become a pastureful of strangers (which doesn't affect my enjoyment of it at all, by the way), but that doesn't mean LMD has to turn into Facebook.

[Jrosas]

As a member of the “pastureful of strangers,” I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to share my puzzles with people who want to solve them. Before finding this site I tried both Facebook and YouTube with only one person showing any interest. I spend many hours on each of my puzzles and am disappointed when only a few people solve one of them, or when someone rated one of them 2 stars in “niceness.”

Personally, I wish more Logic Master solvers would take a few seconds to enter the solution code. For example, I posted a puzzle yesterday that today has had 73 solves according to Sven’s Sudokupad (2 of those are me), but only 28 solves on Logic Masters. I fear that people pass by my puzzles because they appear less popular than they actually are.

I have learned a lot reading this thread.

I for one would be happy to make a small donation to LM every time I post a puzzle, like $5 or $10 US. If every non-club-member setter did that, LM would have some funds for club activities.