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Naoki-Projekt - Druckversion

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RE: Naoki-Projekt - fuji - 26.02.2010

> hole: The wormholes are alternately entered and exited (without re-entering). After the second of each pair, cells are encountered normally.
This description is wonderful. Very clear and helpful. There is no words alternately in the original Japanese rules.
When I read the Japanese rules of wormholes, I couldn't understand the rules.

RE: Naoki-Projekt - fuji - 26.02.2010

I made a figure for explanation of wormhole.

[Bild: wormhole-001.gif?t=1267174842]

Is this helpful?

RE: Naoki-Projekt - Calavera - 02.03.2010

(26.02.2010, 03:48)Naoki schrieb: Could I use the translated rules here?
I want to add the explanations to Inaba's puzzle laboratory.

Well, I have done no translation here, but so far every puzzle explanation was free for everyone to use so I guess it would be ok.

@translator: Shout "No" if you disagree! Biggrin

RE: Naoki-Projekt - Naoki - 05.03.2010

Thanks to everyone.

[Bild: book_100305.jpg]
This picture is the cover of my puzzle book published today.
ISBN 9784872765625

RE: Naoki-Projekt - cuucw - 05.03.2010

(26.02.2010, 10:02)fuji schrieb: > hole: The wormholes are alternately entered and exited (without re-entering). After the second of each pair, cells are encountered normally.
This description is wonderful. Very clear and helpful. There is no words alternately in the original Japanese rules.
When I read the Japanese rules of wormholes, I couldn't understand the rules.

I am glad to hear that I am not alone. Smile Even speakers (readers) of Japanese can have trouble with this one. This was one of the hardest ones for me to understand. It may literally have taken me several years to understand this. Neither Google nor Babblefish translation made this understandable when I first looked in 2005. Looking things up in Kanji and regular Japanese-English dictionaries did not help, although it did give me the likely word "warp". Returning to this every several months, I finally had an "Aha!" moment. (the Google translation had not really changed during that time)

This does bring up an interesting question. What makes a good or effective translation? You commented on my explanatory description, not my actual "translation". Strictly speaking, I can't give translations as I have no knowledge of Japanese, although I can use some Japanese/English dictionaries and Google Translation. In what I have been presenting as translations I have usually been trying to mimic the structure of the original rules, or at least what automatic translation suggests that the structure is. This has been done to show that my translation has a reasonable chance of being correct since it has similarity to an auto-translation. (Although my auto-translated reference may no longer be reproducible) The only reason I gave the second version that you referred to was to have a better chance of answering berni's question when I couldn't figure out what his question was. (in auto-translation from German)

Of course, mimicking the original structure may make the translated version harder to understand, especially when trying to refer to three or more different concepts in a single sentence. Sometimes when I have noticed this, I have instead broken a sentence up into multiple simple sentences.

I have also erred on the side of being very verbose, sometimes almost spelling things out. I know that many people may only read automatic translations of my post. In understanding automatic translations, sometimes all I really have needed to know is a single word, as well as a general sense of what some of the other words might be. Case in point: I have seen translations from both Japanese and German where the automatic translation omits the most important word, some variant of "not", thus changing the whole meaning of a piece of text. By providing more words, I hope that a meaningful word gets through translation, and that I don't rely on a shade-of-meaning of a word that might get lost in translation. Another reason for verboseness is to try to avoid pronouns that might appear to refer to something unintended after auto-translation.

Perhaps a more effective translation would be one that first mimics the original to show that it is applicable, then provide an alternate description based on the concepts alone, not a translation.

------------------------
For the curious, here is how the Google translation for hole.html/.pdf has changed over time. (I don't think there is any difference between the original .html and .pdf) It is bad enough in English, I have no idea what will happen if it is re-translated into something else.

This example also demonstrates that automatic translation changes over time and can either improve or get worse.
Rule 1 is better in the old version.
Rule 2 is about the same, although neither is particularly good. (but both seem to indicate crossing the board and counting or increasing)
Rule 3 is quite a bit better in the new version, both in meaning and sentence structure.
(Note: a square on the board often translates as "mass".)

[.pdf, saved in a file dated April 23, 2005]
hole.pdf Worm hole - rule 1: " The hole " is arranged in several masses of the board surface. 2: Until the number outside advances, entering into the board surface from the position, straight goes outside again the number of masses which are passed is displayed. 3: When there is a hole in the mass which it moved, if there is no that first other hole, from there the loom it does outside. So, if is not, throwing the mass between, the loom it does in the following hole, usually moves again.

[.html, current]
Wormhole
Rule 1: The mass of the board of several "holes" in the place.
2: number of outside, go straight into the board from its position, represents the number of squares until you pass out again.
3: If there are hole in the mass moved to warp out from there if there is no other holes in the road.
Skip to warp to the next hole between the mass of otherwise normal to move again.

RE: Naoki-Projekt - fuji - 13.03.2010

(05.03.2010, 10:54)cuucw schrieb: (Note: a square on the board often translates as "mass".)

Oh, "masu" (Japanese) was translated as "mass".
Sometime, Japanese "masu" means "mass-".
But in puzzle, "masu(マス)" is grid ( cell, box, ... ) but never mass-. Dead

This fatal translation made you difficult to understand the rules.

RE: Naoki-Projekt - cuucw - 16.03.2010

Here are the items from the page Naoki mentioned.
http://puzzle.gr.jp/show/Japanese/hima
They are only available in .pdf files, and there are no solutions given.
Many of these are fast solves so may be appropriate for beginners.

Apology: What is written here would rarely be considered to be "good" English and often not even correct English. This is usually a deliberate attempt to try to preserve meaning when an Automatic Language Translation tool is applied to the text.


This list is in alphabetical order by file name. Names are repeated because some browsers have trouble searching for text in links. Numbers in "()" are the quantity of puzzles. With one notable special case, there are 2, 3, or 4 puzzles of each type. Titles are only given where they make sense, with guesses indicated by "()". These versions of the rules were adapted from both solving and automatic translation into English. "[]" are used to delimit comments, including additional rules that don't seem to appear in the auto-translated rules.

  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/123.pdf
    123 - (4) 123 Place:
    Place a single number, 1-3, in each empty cell.
    The board is divided into regions along cell edges. The number in each cell of a region is equal to the quantity of cells in that region.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/3masu.pdf
    3masu - (2) (3 Square Split):
    Divide the board into regions along cell edges. Each region contains 3 cells.
    Each region contains a single letter. The letter describes the shape of the region, resembling either an "L" or an "I".
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/count.pdf
    count - (2):
    Connect the circles with straight [black] lines along the diagrammed [gray] lines. [Place an integer in each empty circle.] Taken together, the [dark] lines form a [non-branching] path connecting the black circles. [The path may cross at the intersections of gray lines, but not at circles.]
    The numbers indicate the sequential order of the circles along the path.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/four.pdf
    four - (3) (Four balls):
    Divide the balls into groups of four balls. The groups are formed by balls that are adjacent either horizontally or vertically. [Mark each group with horizontal and vertical lines connecting adjacent balls.]
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/hetero.pdf
    hetero - (4) (Heteromino - different polyominos):
    Divide the board into regions consisting of 3 cells. [white cells, connected along edges]
    Regions that touch along cell edges differ in either shape or orientation [rotation], or both.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/island.pdf
    island - (2) Island:
    Fill in some cells to form an island [region] that is connected along edges.
    Numbers indicate the quantity of un-numbered cells of the island that can be reached from the numbered cell by moving across edges. [not diagonally] (Other numbered cells block access.)
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/masucut.pdf
    masucut - (2) (Square Cut):
    Cut [remove] some cells from the board. [represented by shading]
    Removed cells do not touch along edges.
    The remaining cells are not separated into two [edge-connected] regions.
    Numbers indicate the quantity of cells that are removed from each outlined region.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/meiro.pdf
    meiro - (4):
    [The board represents a building.] Divide the interior of the building into [inter-connected] passages by placing walls [represented by lines] along edges of the cells. All the cells form an edge-connected region.
    "O" marks a "T"-junction. [connected to exactly 3 other cells] "X" marks a dead-end. [connected to exactly 1 other cell]
    [All cells that could be marked by either O or X have been marked.]
    [An additional rule is needed. For the given puzzles, the following possibilities are equivalent, and yield unique solutions. There are no loops. There are no 4-way intersections.]
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/pair.pdf
    pair - (4) Tree Pairs:
    Place a single number in each circle. Two of each number from the given range are used.
    Each pair of identical numbers spans a distance, along the tree, equal to value of the numbers.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/plain.pdf
    plain - (4) (Pure Loop):
    Draw a single loop. [made of horizontal and vertical lines, and going through the centers of the cells]
    The loop goes through all of the white cells. [and none of the black ones]
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/reflector.pdf
    reflector - (2) Reflector(s):
    Place a [two-sided] mirror in each outlined square. The mirrors are represented by either "/" or "\" and are oriented in the appropriate direction.
    If a beam of light, perpendicular to the edge of the board, enters the board from the position of a letter and is reflected by any encountered mirrors, the beam will exit the board at the position of a similar letter.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/stone.pdf
    stone - (2) Stones:
    Place circles [representing stones] in some of the empty cells.
    Numbers on the border indicate the quantity of circles along the associated line.
    In every outlined block, the ">", "=", or "<" [mathematical] symbol indicates how the quantities of circles on either side of the symbol compare with each other.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/sturn.pdf
    sturn - (4) (Stars):
    Draw lines composed of horizontal and vertical segments. [through the centers of the cells] Each line connects a single star to a single number.
    Numbers indicate the quantity of times that the associated line turns.
    The lines do not cross. [or touch]
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/tateyoko.pdf
    tateyoko - (4) Partition Wall:
    Divide the board into regions made of two cells. [connected on an edge]
    "O" indicates that the regions on either side of the edge have the same orientation. "X" indicates that the regions on either side of the edge have different orientations.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/tentacle.pdf
    tentacle - (3):
    Draw lines starting from the center of each cell that has a number. [composed of horizontal and vertical segments through the centers of cells] Each number indicates the length of the line that extends from that number. [The distance between the centers of two adjacent cells has a length of 1.]
    Lines do not touch.
  • http://puzzle.gr.jp/kahua/kahua-web/hima/uchisoto.pdf
    uchisoto - (2) Inside and Outside the Loop:
    Draw a loop [along cell edges] that goes through all the intersections of the grid.
    The Kanji characters indicate whether that cell is inside the loop or outside the loop.
    [The Kanji characters, as used here, are pronounced "uchi", meaning inside, and "soto", meaning outside".]


RE: Naoki-Projekt - fuji - 17.03.2010

"hima"(Japanese) means "spare time, free time".
So these puzzles are suitable for puzzle beginners to kill time.Biggrin

RE: Naoki-Projekt - Naoki - 31.03.2010

Is this OK?
http://inabapuzzle.com/honkaku/quad.html

RE: Naoki-Projekt - Semax - 31.03.2010

Yes, it's ok.