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Jun 2011
#11
Hi,

First of all I would like to say that I liked this task a lotLove I had to say that it is full of surprises and it is hard to estimate the final max. scoreRolleyes I will try to improve my current score if I find time. And lastly I want to thank MR-team for their amazing effort and many different puzzle ideasOk

Regards,

Zafer
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#12
(19.06.2011, 16:52)Semax schrieb: Also erstmal: es freut uns, dass es so vielen von euch gefällt.
Aber auch, wenn es euch nicht gefällt, würden wir das gern hören.

Aber wie gesagt: versucht euch möglichst konkret auszudrücken, dann können wir damit auch etwas anfangen.

Danke

Sebastian, thank you for this open attitude! I would like to use this opportunity to give some feedback.

First of all, in general I very much like the MR, but in this puzzle one minor aspects could be better.

For this puzzle, the way the applet represents the solution does not make it easy to enhance your solution. This is caused by two effects:
- the river is not clearly different from the boundaries of the pentominos. I have had (several times) difficulty determining where the boundaries are, especially in the fork of the river.
- when an error occurs, e.g. a 2x2 white area, the highlighted cell boundaries make it impossible to see where the pentomino boundaries are, and how to remove the error.

I understand that it is difficult to program the applet, so for me, it's no big deal.

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#13
Thank you.
Should be better now.
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#14
(20.06.2011, 19:55)Semax schrieb: Thank you.
Should be better now.

It is.

We wait for jun_puzzle patiently, then impatiently Smile Nice, as usually. It still hides a lot potential. Good job MR team.

I find one error. If you miss to put letter, and leave there a dot , applet will take it as a single green square and accept wrong solution as ok. Didn't exploit this as it is directly against puzzle rules, but used accidentally gives me false hope that I make it Smile

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#15
@Sebastian: Much better, thank you!

@majkll: The solution is accepted, but you score -100 points if a single point is left. So no chance for cheating there!
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#16
Yeah, we had a discussion about this point, too.

First, as Robert said, the solution is not accepted: you gain -100 points, because the grid has empty fields.

Second, it makes sense to show the points you would get, if the solution would be accepted, despite the fact that there are empty fields. That's because as a solver you want to see tendencies in a part of the grid without the need to fill all the empty fields every time. So we decided to show the points even in partly empty grids.

Third, now, should we also mark the empty fields in red color every time?
If the grid is mostly empty, it would be annoying. If the grid is mostly filled, it would maybe nice.
But if we want to fulfill both cases, there would be a border, say 10, at which the good looking grid (with 11 empty green fields) changes into a bad looking grid (with 10 empty red fields). At this point the solver would be irritated.
So we have three possibilities: always red, never red, sometimes red. And there are good reasons for each of them.
Well, we decided to never mark empty fields red, instead we put a message under the points which says that you get a flat -100 points.

I see the problem, that it is not stated in english too. I will add it.
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#17
(22.06.2011, 00:05)Semax schrieb: I see the problem, that it is not stated in english too. I will add it.

It's almoust perfect. No need to complicate.
I didn't find it in summary of rules, then didn't see -100 at bottom of solution recapitulation. Maybe text should be: instead of xxx points your score is -100 for empty square. Again - no need to change.

One other thing I would prefer. Besides entering box, a small, tiny Smile applet for entering solution. Just grid for entering characters. If cells can be colored by you (for this puzzle: sea, towns) for easy orientation - it would be perfect.
No need for applet as in croco-puzzle, just this grid. It can be used for every puzzle as this simple box is used now. You make so good applets for showing the solutions and this has not to be a problem Rolleyes



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#18
I don't know, if I understand you correctly. You want to have 400 different input fields (one for each grid field), arranged as a 20x20 grid (or similar, depending on the grid size) instead of this one input field? So to speak: you want to be able to "draw" your input directly on the solution grid (or on a copy of it)?
This would be possible, but additionally to a nicer input feeling, there would be some disadvantages (copying your solution for storing it yourself?; reentering a stored solution?; deleting/restoring/copying whole rows/columns?; -> not possible anymore).
Then again I am thinking about providing both input methods to you. That would solve the problems. But then we have the difficulty of synchronization. That would either mean to use Javascript (which someone (users/owners) may not like) or fancier methods (that I can not program yet) or to not provide synchronization (but then the user has to choose which input to take, simpliest with two different submit buttons. But then I can imagine some mistakes by taking the wrong one and getting frustrated).

Well. I would settle on the Javascript-synchronized version right now, but I don't know if we want to have Javascript on our site. If it would be ok and when I find some time, I will try it.
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#19
(25.06.2011, 12:24)Semax schrieb: I don't know, if I understand you correctly. You want to have 400 different input fields (one for each grid field), arranged as a 20x20 grid (or similar, depending on the grid size) instead of this one input field? So to speak: you want to be able to "draw" your input directly on the solution grid (or on a copy of it)?
This would be possible, but additionally to a nicer input feeling, there would be some disadvantages (copying your solution for storing it yourself?; reentering a stored solution?; deleting/restoring/copying whole rows/columns?; -> not possible anymore).

Idea is to make entering solution easy. And use something better than text box, something that can be used for all puzzles. One grid eg. 20x20, properly colored, highlited current cell, moving with arrows and alow to enter character or numbers in grid cells. Everithing else can be the same as is now.
Something like this was used here before. For example:
http://www.logic-masters.de/OM2009/seiten/applet.php

I can't find exactly same applet as I describe because they are not available now. Maybe you can get it from site archive.


(25.06.2011, 12:24)Semax schrieb: Then again I am thinking about providing both input methods to you. That would solve the problems. But then we have the difficulty of synchronization. That would either mean to use Javascript (which someone (users/owners) may not like) or fancier methods (that I can not program yet) or to not provide synchronization (but then the user has to choose which input to take, simpliest with two different submit buttons. But then I can imagine some mistakes by taking the wrong one and getting frustrated).

Well. I would settle on the Javascript-synchronized version right now, but I don't know if we want to have Javascript on our site. If it would be ok and when I find some time, I will try it.

Again - I saw solution right here.
Not a long time ago besides "Solution form" there was a "Applet" in main many.

Look at
http://www.logic-masters.de/OM2009/seiten/start.php

# Instructions
# Instructions round 4
# Solution forms
# Applet
# Final results


Hope that I describe idea better this time.

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#20
Oh, I see. Yeah, that goes to the fancy methods Biggrin I can not program Java yet. Maybe it's a good opportunity to start with it.
Well, we will discuss it in our team.
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