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Puzzles drawn back
#11
I think there is nothing CJK should apologize for. When the exchange in question took place, he advised bigger several times that the puzzle might contain a mistake. Under the circumstances, asking the author to deacivate the puzzle is not an offense. There may be other options, but in such cases one should avoid the risk of other solvers wasting time and energy on a broken puzzle.

Deactivating a puzzle can be temporary or permanent. Sometimes such mistakes can be fixed easily; sometimes it is not possible to repair the broken parts. In any case, I think it is a very poor excuse to claim that reactivating a puzzle is too much work. And I think deactivating all puzzles is an overreaction, but in the end, that is of course for the author to decide.
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#12
One more thing: The fun in the Puzzle Portal is supposed to be mutual. It would not occur to me to keep setting puzzles if I wasn't enjoying it. But on the other hand, I would expect solvers to solve puzzles because it is fun for them as well, which might not be the case if the puzzle is broken. There have already been discussions about how the avalanche of new puzzles ("Sudoku flood") takes the fun out of the Portal for some, and I cannot imagine things to improve if all the broken puzzles would remain active just to keep the discussion going.
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#13
bigger
(14.06.2022, 09:40)CJK schrieb: Dear bigger,

I am terribly sorry that it seemed like I wanted you to delete your puzzles: This is most definitely not the case!
For me, the goal also was that your puzzle get fixed: A common practice (at least I thought so) is to temporarily deactivate the puzzle, fix the error, and then reactivate the puzzle again. This has the advantage that there is no public broken puzzle visible during the reparation process and the setter is under less time pressure to fix the puzzle.

I always thought of the deactivation as temporarily, and I would have never thought that one cannot reactivate the puzzle again: Even on the help page, it says 'You can also deactivate an active puzzle there in case you would like to edit it.'

I would love to see a fixed version of the puzzle and I'm really sorry if I accidently took the fun of setting puzzles and publishing them in the portal away from you Sad

Best regards,
CJK

PS: If you're still interested in my solve path for 3D Tapa, I can send you a picture Smile

like I said, to fix a puzzle, a setter must know where to fix. deactivation doesn't help. even though there's a forum, the best place to talk about a puzzle is still under the puzzle page in the comment section. deactivation just shut that way off. it just makes fixing a puzzle much harder.
also, if you think deactivation is temporarily, tell this to 600+(I think is 800+ now) puzzles. i wait for months for them to reactivate. what's said on the manual is never what's in practice. sure, one can reactivate a puzzle. but one needs to goes to the portal front page, choose 'my puzzles' to find the deactivated puzzles. it's not at the 'user pages' button, which is shown twice in any puzzle pages.
and, you did not took the fun, there wasn't any to begin with. setting and posting puzzles is never fun for me. just like drawing or building, the process of making stuff is a grind and the joy only comes after making one. and for me, the only part that interest me is talking about a puzzle. I usually talk with Old Miles about how a puzzle does, what makes it interesting, how far can it go, what i want to see in the future, what makes this puzzle interesting.
as for 3d tapa that one, I did not expect anybody to solve it. it's just need to be there to remind me i can do this with 3d puzzles. and now, i'm already setting other puzzles, i don't want to revisit that one and fry my brain. i would rather set another 3d hashi or anything than fix something months ago again. like it or not, that puzzle will stay hidden in my collection of puzzles, not to be shown to anybody. even if I did reactivate my puzzles, I won't reactivate non sudoku variant. too much stress and too less gain.
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#14
One should add that "inactive" includes everything that is in preparation or waiting for a predetermined activation date or other things. I know some people like creating a puzzle as a draft when they have an idea without being sure if they ever want to publish it. I also have an inactive puzzle, which I once activated on accident and now I can't use it any more, because activating would mean it appears somewhere on page 100. I could delete it, but instead I use it as a playground for testing layouts and such things.

Permanently deactivating non-broken puzzles was always rare and I think it is widely regarded as unfortunate and not very nice. I can only speak for the people I know in person though and not the "new" portal crowd. I understand that it might be frustrating for the author to get a bad comment, or the rating is much lower than expected, or there are not enough solvers at all. But having the user rights to do something does not mean that it will be well received. To be honest I have a hard time following and agreeing to most of your arguments. Language barriers and cultural differences give a lot of reasons for unfortunate misunderstandings.

I have a stack of printed puzzles I take on holidays, and although a lot of the joy is in the solving part, it's a bit frustrating if you come back and want to enter the solution and the puzzle just disappeared, especially if it's a tough nut with only a handful of solves. For some people it's also frustrating realizing that 50 solves just disappeared. I don't know, if there are still people that have fun going for leaderboard ranks, but who am I to judge them.
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#15
I guess I 'll use examples. 000A3D, a normal yajilin, but has a multiple solution which doesn't affect its solution code. the author could add a ? clue to avoid multiple solution, but instead after 7 solves, he deactivate that puzzle, still not activate. phantom arrow from _, hs nothing wrong with the puzzles. it's just the rules example picture use thin line that confused people. deactivated after 3 or more comment about rules explaination. skyscraper index, I don't know there's anything wrong, but I solve it, and 4 others did too, still deactivated.
my point is if a puzzle can be fixed with a small effort, why so many choose to deactivate their own puzzles. i only notice this because i go back toy solved puzzles to find inspiration. and usually, those deactivated puzzles has an idea i can use. the thing with broken puzzles, there aren't that many. and nobody tell new setters it's okay to make mistake so long as you'll fix it.
as for the reason why i set puzzles even if it's not fun, because i don't set for fun. i set puzzles to find the end of sudoku variant. i need to know, want to know the boundary of each variant. i need to make sure i don't have to set another puzzle of the same rule to show the variant's worth
and about my previous post, i don't like people solving my previous puzzles without trying my latest puzzles. i'm still posting and you're favoring my past. it shows my past is better than my present. and when i try to find what makes my past post better, i found nothing. especially type good series, it's a series Old Miles told me he doesn't like because it's not his original idea and too little effort was put in those puzzles. i was waiting for a opportunity to deactivate all these puzzles and CJK just happen to give a reason. if a puzzle has a mistake, then it get deactivated. then sure, i could consider all my posted puzzles have mistakes. how else would i explain few solves and low ratings. i don't have to post more puzzles to make up for the mistake i made. in case you might forgot, that's how n-sum become a thing.
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#16
(14.06.2022, 17:07)bigger schrieb: I guess I 'll use examples. 000A3D, a normal yajilin, but has a multiple solution which doesn't affect its solution code. the author could add a ? clue to avoid multiple solution, but instead after 7 solves, he deactivate that puzzle, still not activate. phantom arrow from _, hs nothing wrong with the puzzles. it's just the rules example picture use thin line that confused people. deactivated after 3 or more comment about rules explaination.  skyscraper index, I don't know there's anything wrong, but I solve it, and 4 others did too, still deactivated.
my point is if a puzzle can be fixed with a small effort, why so many choose to deactivate their own puzzles. i only notice this because i go back toy solved puzzles to find inspiration. and usually, those deactivated puzzles has an idea i can use. the thing with broken puzzles, there aren't that many. and nobody tell new setters it's okay to make mistake so long as you'll fix it.
as for the reason why i set puzzles even if it's not fun, because i don't set for fun. i set puzzles to find the end of sudoku variant. i need to know, want to know the boundary of each variant. i need to make sure i don't have to set another puzzle of the same rule to show the variant's worth
and about my previous post, i don't like people solving my previous puzzles without trying my latest puzzles. i'm still posting and you're favoring my past. it shows my past is better than my present. and when i try to find what makes my past post better, i found nothing. especially type good series, it's a series Old Miles told me he doesn't like because it's not his original idea and too little effort was put in those puzzles. i was waiting for a opportunity to deactivate all these puzzles and CJK just happen to give a reason. if a puzzle has a mistake, then it get deactivated. then sure, i could consider all my posted puzzles have mistakes. how else would i explain few solves and low ratings. i don't have to post more puzzles to make up for the mistake i made.  in case you might forgot, that's how n-sum become a thing.

Hi Bigger,

I'm sure there are more ways to explain the few solves or low ratings on your puzzles of which I solved and appreciated quite a number for the only reason they were nice and new. When deactivating the puzzles, did you consider the effort and the time some have put into solving them. Needing an opportunity to deactivate them is quite an anticlimax, very much unlike the "bigger" I had imagined. What to expect from a future without past? I suppose I won't make an other bigger puzzle again.
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#17
(14.06.2022, 20:17)marcmees schrieb:
(14.06.2022, 17:07)bigger schrieb: I guess I 'll use examples. 000A3D, a normal yajilin, but has a multiple solution which doesn't affect its solution code. the author could add a ? clue to avoid multiple solution, but instead after 7 solves, he deactivate that puzzle, still not activate. phantom arrow from _, hs nothing wrong with the puzzles. it's just the rules example picture use thin line that confused people. deactivated after 3 or more comment about rules explaination.  skyscraper index, I don't know there's anything wrong, but I solve it, and 4 others did too, still deactivated.
my point is if a puzzle can be fixed with a small effort, why so many choose to deactivate their own puzzles. i only notice this because i go back toy solved puzzles to find inspiration. and usually, those deactivated puzzles has an idea i can use. the thing with broken puzzles, there aren't that many. and nobody tell new setters it's okay to make mistake so long as you'll fix it.
as for the reason why i set puzzles even if it's not fun, because i don't set for fun. i set puzzles to find the end of sudoku variant. i need to know, want to know the boundary of each variant. i need to make sure i don't have to set another puzzle of the same rule to show the variant's worth
and about my previous post, i don't like people solving my previous puzzles without trying my latest puzzles. i'm still posting and you're favoring my past. it shows my past is better than my present. and when i try to find what makes my past post better, i found nothing. especially type good series, it's a series Old Miles told me he doesn't like because it's not his original idea and too little effort was put in those puzzles. i was waiting for a opportunity to deactivate all these puzzles and CJK just happen to give a reason. if a puzzle has a mistake, then it get deactivated. then sure, i could consider all my posted puzzles have mistakes. how else would i explain few solves and low ratings. i don't have to post more puzzles to make up for the mistake i made.  in case you might forgot, that's how n-sum become a thing.

Hi Bigger,

I'm sure there are more ways to explain the few solves or low ratings on your puzzles of which I solved and appreciated quite a number for the only reason they were nice and new. When deactivating the puzzles, did you consider the effort and the time some have put into solving them. Needing an opportunity to deactivate them is quite an anticlimax, very much unlike the "bigger" I had imagined. What to expect from a future without past? I suppose I won't make an other bigger puzzle again.

well since you mention my name. the name bigger is there to be neglected. there's no way you could tell the others that you solve a bigger puzzle. it's confusing enough to make sure every solver keep puzzles for themselves. the same reason why i only have two tag for most of my puzzles.
and no, i don't take consideration for the solvers, because every puzzle i set, i playtest at least 3 times to make sure nothing unexpected happens. and as far as i can remember, nobody, even you, appreciate the effort me and Old Miles put in a puzzle. empty praises don't mean anyting. and if the setters effort is not in the equation, neither is the solvers effort.
and my past puzzles, there's always some new solvers find those and leave comment i don't want to reply. those are puzzles that are bury deep in time. how did new solvers find those. thing is, i don't like new guys visiting my old puzzles. they were't there when it happens.
also, who do you think i am. i'm not nice. the way i react is simply multiply the requested and give back. and needing to deactivate puzzles goes way back to my first post. there's one guy(not Old Miles) threatened me to deactivate it because low rating harms Old Miles reputation, in public. and that seed is there at day one. and i remember i said many times i don't like red stars. it really is a matter of time before i deactivate all my red star puzzles.
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#18
(14.06.2022, 22:47)bigger schrieb:
(14.06.2022, 20:17)marcmees schrieb:
(14.06.2022, 17:07)bigger schrieb: I guess I 'll use examples. 000A3D, a normal yajilin, but has a multiple solution which doesn't affect its solution code. the author could add a ? clue to avoid multiple solution, but instead after 7 solves, he deactivate that puzzle, still not activate. phantom arrow from _, hs nothing wrong with the puzzles. it's just the rules example picture use thin line that confused people. deactivated after 3 or more comment about rules explaination.  skyscraper index, I don't know there's anything wrong, but I solve it, and 4 others did too, still deactivated.
my point is if a puzzle can be fixed with a small effort, why so many choose to deactivate their own puzzles. i only notice this because i go back toy solved puzzles to find inspiration. and usually, those deactivated puzzles has an idea i can use. the thing with broken puzzles, there aren't that many. and nobody tell new setters it's okay to make mistake so long as you'll fix it.
as for the reason why i set puzzles even if it's not fun, because i don't set for fun. i set puzzles to find the end of sudoku variant. i need to know, want to know the boundary of each variant. i need to make sure i don't have to set another puzzle of the same rule to show the variant's worth
and about my previous post, i don't like people solving my previous puzzles without trying my latest puzzles. i'm still posting and you're favoring my past. it shows my past is better than my present. and when i try to find what makes my past post better, i found nothing. especially type good series, it's a series Old Miles told me he doesn't like because it's not his original idea and too little effort was put in those puzzles. i was waiting for a opportunity to deactivate all these puzzles and CJK just happen to give a reason. if a puzzle has a mistake, then it get deactivated. then sure, i could consider all my posted puzzles have mistakes. how else would i explain few solves and low ratings. i don't have to post more puzzles to make up for the mistake i made.  in case you might forgot, that's how n-sum become a thing.

Hi Bigger,

I'm sure there are more ways to explain the few solves or low ratings on your puzzles of which I solved and appreciated quite a number for the only reason they were nice and new. When deactivating the puzzles, did you consider the effort and the time some have put into solving them. Needing an opportunity to deactivate them is quite an anticlimax, very much unlike the "bigger" I had imagined. What to expect from a future without past? I suppose I won't make an other bigger puzzle again.

well since you mention my name. the name bigger is there to be neglected. there's no way you could tell the others that you solve a bigger puzzle. it's confusing enough to make sure every solver keep puzzles for themselves. the same reason why i only have two tag for most of my puzzles.
and no, i don't take consideration for the solvers, because every puzzle i set, i playtest at least 3 times to make sure nothing unexpected happens. and as far as i can remember, nobody, even you, appreciate the effort me and Old Miles put in a puzzle. empty praises don't mean anyting. and if the setters effort is not in the equation, neither is the solvers effort.
and my past puzzles, there's always some new solvers find those and leave comment i don't want to reply. those are puzzles that are bury deep in time. how did new solvers find those. thing is, i don't like new guys visiting my old puzzles. they were't there when it happens.
also, who do you think i am. i'm not nice. the way i react is simply multiply the requested and give back. and needing to deactivate puzzles goes way back to my first post. there's one guy(not Old Miles) threatened me to deactivate it because low rating harms Old Miles reputation, in public. and that seed is there at day one. and i remember i said many times i don't like red stars. it really is a matter of time before i deactivate all my red star puzzles.
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#19
The origin of all this was just a misunderstanding.

CJK asked for "deactivating" and bigger understood "deleting".

Is it really necessary to destroy so much just because of one comment. Even if it had been not ok, what he said (it was ok IMO), there are many other solvers, who love your puzzles, bigger.
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#20
Let me ask a blunt question: Are puzzle authors designing puzzles for themselves or for the solvers?

No, I am not trying to imply that only the solvers matter. Puzzle authors can expect some amount of recognition. The Puzzle Portal can only work if there is a balance between the two. It is about give and take.

In this regard, the Portal has changed a lot lately. Authors seem to get mad about the ratings of their creations and about the number of solvers. I find that regrettable. In the end, however, it is not for the authors to decide how much recognition they deserve. The final judgment about a puzzle can only come from the audience.

That said, I do not believe there was a misunderstanding in bigger's case. CJK asked him to "deactivate the puzzle until it is fixed". Not delete it, or deactivate it permanently. What is there to misunderstand about the phrase "until it is fixed"?

As I see it, bigger took offense simply because he felt he was entitled to more appreciation than he got. Just read his posts again, in particular the parts about what he wants and expects. And now imagine every author doing the same thing, every single time a puzzle receives criticism or is otherwise - in his opinion - somehow underappreciated.
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